Something that is often touted as the signature of a good mom is our degree of selflessness. Right? She's so selfless. Oh, she gives so much of herself. She is she is she is selfless is synonymous with a good mom. And the research shows us that things like selflessness and happy being a happy mom are the things that are usually the highest indicators of whether we view someone as a good mom. When we look at what it actually means to be selfless, it it it's very difficult to be selfless all the time and also be happy. Welcome to the Well Nourished Mother Podcast. This is a show for women who desire a deeper, more mindful, and meaningful pregnancy, birth, and motherhood experience. In this space, we bring so much reverence to the rite of passage that is the maiden to mother journey. I'm your host Lauren Fortunaflok, founder of Nest and Nourish. I'm an ex nurse turned birth worker, holistic nutritionist, and somatic coaching student with a fiery passion for birth prep and mother head prep that blends the head and the heart. Join me for inspiring conversations with experts, mothers, mothers, and all around badass wise women exploring all the ways we can nourish ourselves, body, mind, and heart in pregnancy, need to Okay, Sam. So how are you? Thank you for doing this today. I'm very excited to chat with you and to get us started, can you share a word or phrase to describe your current season of motherhood? Oh, I am doing well today. My current season of motherhood. I am in a very complex phase of motherhood right now. Being pregnant, having a almost 3 year old, starting a business. I feel like I am in a phase of, like, cocoon and transformation at the same time. Does that make sense? Mhmm. Yeah. And I'm all I'm all snuggled in and feel this transformation coming. But as I'm in this gestation period, literally, things are starting to already shift, And, it's been a really unique phase of motherhood. Yeah. Yeah. And I mean, congratulations on your pregnancy. And I know our, our toddlers are almost exactly the same age. I think they're like a week apart or something. So, yeah. Yeah. I understand the phase in that sense. Mhmm. Yep. Yeah. So, can you tell us a little bit about who you are, what you do, and what you're passionate about? Yeah. Absolutely. So my name is Sam Paul. I am a part time stay at home mom. I have a almost 3 year old. He'll be 3 in April. His name is Teddy, and I am 17 and a half weeks pregnant with our little girl and, due in July. And what I do right now is I it's such a weird question. It's a heart swan word to answer. What I do right now is I am essentially kind of a content creator. I create I have a podcast with my best friend, Emmy, my long lost best friend, Emmy, that we are so lucky to have Lauren on. And, we it's called becoming mama. We talk all things motherhood, and we catch up after having not talked to each other for 10 years after being high school best friends. And then I have a company called Welcome Mama where I create products and content for moms. And my first product is a journal and day planner for moms that will be coming out this spring that I'm so excited for. And so my life right now really is just creating this. I'm a normal mom with no real following, and I just love the product that I created. And I'm, trying to put myself out there and put the product out there to to share that. So, most of my days are spent mothering, talking about motherhood, and that's what I'm really passionate about is helping myself and helping moms embrace their own unique version of motherhood by taking care of themselves, by putting time and intention into themselves, and by enlightening us all to the social pressures of motherhood, the social expectations around motherhood, and trying to break those down, and then just really capturing motherhood, and having the tools to do that. Yeah. That's beautiful. I'm so excited for your journal. I was kind of stalking you last night in preparation and, yeah, I'm so excited for, for that to come out. It looks like a beautiful creation. So I would love to know, like, what inspired this journal, this work, the podcast, all of it. What inspired you to start creating and and working for and with mothers? Yeah. So I always wanted to be a mom. Like, when I was a kid, when I think and I hear the story more and more that I tell the story. I think it's more common than I ever thought. But when people would ask me what I wanted to be when I grew up, I would just say a mom. Like, I just wanted to be a mom. I didn't know that you had to, like, make money in the world and that you don't usually make money doing that. I just wanted to be a mom. And so when I finally became a mom at 30, which was a lot later than I ever had planned, you know, I had this big vision of what motherhood was gonna look like. I had a lot of expectations for myself, for what the experience was gonna feel like and look like. And then my son was born with tongue, lip, and cheek ties, which really his disposition, his ability to feed, his ability to sleep. And it was just a very challenging first 4 to 5 months of his life of him being miserable, us really fighting to figure out what was going on, being dismissed time and time again, and me feeling like a total failure. That every expectation I had set for myself and for my experience was not being met. And I internalized that greatly as I think a lot of us do, especially as high achievers out there who, you know, we wanna do things right. When we set an expectation, we wanna meet it and exceed it. And I couldn't do that. And I couldn't figure out how. And I felt like I was supposed to figure it all out, and I couldn't do that. And so for the first about 18 months of my son's life, I really held a lot of sadness and grief around that period that I felt like I had missed out. I felt like I had failed. And in order to get past that, I really focused on kinda doing it all. Like, okay. I made it through that. Things are better. He's better. And so now I'm gonna bounce back. I'm gonna get back to my life. I'm gonna do all the the things. I'm gonna do it while being a stay at home mom. And so I I actually went back to work when my son was a week old. I I started doing client check ins at that time as a as a fitness coach, which was not really demanding. But you when you're sitting there rocking your baby and you're thinking, like, I need to go answer this email, it really takes you out of the moment and it builds a lot more resentment for this baby who needs you because of the challenges that he has, and just because he's a baby. But I I spent that year just doing more and more and more and trying to prove myself that I could do it, that I was enough, that I hadn't really changed as much as I thought I had. And then I learned about the word matrescence. And I think as a lot of us do, you hear that word and everything clicks and you go, oh, that's what this is. And I started to look into that more. I started to be enlightened to just how I was set up to struggle in so many ways by the expectations we place on moms, by the social narrative around motherhood, by the lack of support we have going into matressants, lack of awareness we have going into matressants. And I just got really angry, and I was like, I need to learn more about this. I wanna talk about this. And so I started a scenes of matressants, course with Nikki MacKoon. And I I took that and I learned a lot. But in that time frame, I also had a really pivotal moment where I was making a yearly recap of 2022, it would have been. And I was putting together all of these clips of my son from the year, and I just started sobbing. And I was like, I don't remember this. Like, I don't I I I was there. I took these videos, but I don't remember it because I was so caught up in trying to do it all, to be it all, to prove myself, to bounce back that I wasn't present. And then I so that hit me and it was like, okay. I I I need to do something about this. I don't know what that is right now, but I need to do something about this. And then I, I had another moment where I my son did something funny. And I couldn't wait to tell my mom about it. And then the next day, I didn't remember what it was. And I was like, how am I how do I think I'm gonna remember his childhood? Like, these little moments that I that happened in a day where I go, oh my god. I never wanna forget that. I'm gonna forget that. How how do how do I really expect myself to remember these things when I can't remember what happened yesterday? And so those two things kinda compounded. And I I had this idea where I was like, okay. Well, I journal sometimes, and that's helpful. But it's not, like, based on motherhood. I'd use the 5 minute journal, which I actually really love. It's, very simple prompts, same prompts every day. And, I liked it, but there was nothing around motherhood. There was nowhere for me to, like, write down these things that were happening. I never want to really stick with free write journaling. It's just too overwhelming for me, and I have ADHD. So tasks like that, I need them to be more guided. And I use a a day planner. And I love that for organizing my day and kind of writing down the things that have happened. But it it was very much one or the other for me because I just didn't have time to do it all. And, again, with my ADHD, I couldn't remember to do it all. So it was either I use my day planner or I use my journal. I was like, okay. What if this is all in one? What if I didn't have to think about this? And I just sat down every morning and I use this one thing. And I journaled and I centered myself. I wrote down what happened. And I wrote had that place for my memories. Just for my memories. For my memories. And then I had my day planner on the other page. So I had centering here and then I had organized here. And it was just one stop shop. And so I made it for myself and I loved it. And I made shared it on social media, and I sent it to a couple of girls to try out and they loved it. And so then I was like, okay. I think this is something that I I have to do and I felt really called to do. And so now it's being published and is being printed. And it's been an absolutely life changing thing for me to have in my life, and it's helped me to, overcome some of those things. I think that the the the things that I struggled with, I still struggle with. I think a lot of us do. Like the presence and the being and accepting of yourself and knowing that you've you've done enough. But it really has helped me, in a lot of those areas. So that's where the journal came from, and that's kind of my my origin story there. Mhmm. Yeah. And oh my gosh, you've touched on so many things here, like bounce back culture and matress and the power of when you hear that word for the first time. Like I know for myself, when I first heard that word, it was like, okay. It was like I could exhale. I was like, okay, there's a this is a real thing that we all experience, whether we realize it or not. It's Yep. And for those who maybe don't know what the word matressants, means, it's like the hormonal, the physical, the the emotional shift that occurs when you become a mother. And I think just having a word to describe that intense experience, Just, yeah, it gives language to, to such a kind of, A very like, what's the word I've been trying to look for? Like, a pee a pee what's what's the word I'm trying to think? Yeah. It's it's it's like an overhaul of your entire life identity. It it really is. And I think the biggest thing for me was I had a lot of people in my life who either hadn't had kids or had kids a long time ago And they just kept saying things like like, you're you're still you. Like like, they wanted to talk about things that I didn't care about anymore. All I wanted to talk about was motherhood. All I thought about was motherhood. And I felt wrong for that because I felt like I wasn't supposed to change. And so when someone told me, like, hey. Whether you think you were supposed to to supposed to or not, you have. And you've changed on so many levels. And being allowed to embrace that and lean into that was life changing. Yeah. Yeah. It, like, allows you to fully step into it, I think. Yes. Like, it gives permission in a way. It's like, oh, okay. Like, we're not supposed to be the same. It's like your I mean, you use the cocoon butterfly, analogy, metaphor, whatever it is. And it's perfect for motherhood because it's so true. You can't go back to being, you know, the caterpillar in the cocoon. You just can't. You're changed. You're forever changed your physiology, your hormones, your all of it. And I think if more women understood that, like before becoming a mother, like going into it, if it was the cultural understanding, which I think it slowly is becoming, because of social media and, you know, sharing this work, around matrescence. But I just think we would have such an easier time and this bounce back culture would have such, like, much less of a grip on us. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I really resonate with, you shared kind of about this push and pull to do so much. And as a high achieving mother, as you said, it is really hard to surrender into, you know, that early postpartum time or any any motherhood, you know, any part of motherhood. It's hard to surrender and sit back and let go and not do and just be. Like, it's a very if you're used to hustling all the time and achieving, and and that is what, you know, success means to you, then, yeah, it is really, really hard to just sit back and be. And it's not something that you just, it's like, oh, well, I'm I'm on mat leave maybe. I I don't have to do anything, but there's still this, like and even, you know, for creatives as well. Like, I consider myself a very creative person. Like, there was always this, like, creative energy. Like, I wanna do something. I need to make something. I need to create something. And, you know, when I was finally able to realize, like, okay, I created a baby. And, like, my energy needs to go into this baby right now. I kind of gave myself permission to allow the mothering to be the creation for a while, but there's always this like nagging pull to do more. And I think that's, you know, it's our it's our culture. It's our, yeah. Yeah. So it's hard. It's so hard, but I love that you were able to create something that kind of helped you helped guide your daily kind of practice and kind of recenter yourself. And, yeah, this idea of not remembering. Like, I think I started, like, just a note in my phone. I was like, same thing. I'm like, I can't remember anything anyway on a good day. Right. Low iron and all this other stuff that relates to that, but plus being a sleep deprived mom. So I started a note in my phone and it's just like things I don't want to forget. And I just list all of the cute little things. But, yeah, there's still this fear of somehow that it's gonna get erased and then I'll never see it again. So I like the idea of having it like on paper in a journal. And it's something so beautiful that you can show your child when they're older, And give them a peek into your life and your brain and what was happening for you at that time. I think that's Yeah. That's so beautiful. I love that. I love whenever a mom says that because I think a lot of times in motherhood, we are put into the context of our children. So, like, good for you to take care of yourself so that you're better for your kids or good for you to record your kids' memories so that they have their memories down the road, which is true. It's all true and it's all super important. But what's often missed in that context is good for you for taking care of you for you. You matter, mama. You matter outside of the context of anyone other than yourself. And good for you for writing those down those memories so that you have them to look back on. And good for you for writing this down so your kids will be able to learn about you. And I don't know about you, but I like, whether it's your mom or your dad or any family member you're connected to, what a gift it would be to be able to look back on their life and see how they experienced you. To be like, oh, man. She really loved me. And she really like, that little thing I did that I wouldn't have you know, I didn't think anything about it. That meant the world to her. And to be able to look back at the context of who your mom was and how your mom experienced you, I think is such a gift. And I didn't even realize that myself as I was making it until I had one of my best friends has, children who are all out of the house. Her youngest is a freshman in college. And she when I told her what I was making, she started crying. And she was like, I wish I could pull that out right now. And I wish I could gift that to my kids down the road. And I was like, I didn't even think about that because this was just so much of me wanting to remember those memories. But it it's it's just bigger than that. I love that. And when you said that at the beginning, you know, that, like, doing it for you, like, for you as the mother, not for your children, Like, that gave me chills, and it's so true. Like, we're just so automatic to make everything about the child. And, of course, that's important. And, of course, that's good. And, you know, there's that's what caring and nurturing and having a child is, of course. But like you said, what gets missed so often is the self care, the self centering. And I think a lot of moms feel super guilty about that and feel super selfish. So I would love to hear I know you use the term selfish. Mhmm. I'd love to hear more about that. Yeah. So this came partially from my Metresen's education. But something that is often and I think in most cultures is very often toted as the signature of a good mom is our degree of selflessness. Right? She's so selfless. Oh, she gives so much of herself. She is she is just she is selfless is synonymous with good mom. And the research shows us that things like selflessness and happy being a happy mom are the things that are usually the highest indicators of whether we view someone as a good mom. When we look at what it actually means to be selfless, it it it's very difficult to be selfless all of the time and also be happy. Because when you are selfless, when when I when I hear the word selfless, what I hear is selfless. Like lack of self. You are not caring for yourself. You don't have a sense of self. You don't matter because there is no you anymore. It's all about the kids. And you and you hear that often, maybe not hopefully as often. But what I did hear a lot is it's not about you anymore when you have a kid. You're upset. You want something. It's not about you anymore. It's about the kid. And, inherently, as a mother, your job is to think of yourself less. You will think of yourself less. Your job is to care for another human, to keep another human alive, to give another human, the best chance they have in this world. And that means that you are going to think of yourself less. I do not think that means that you need to be selfless to lose yourself, to lose your lack your sense of self, and to feel guilty for wanting to care for yourself. And so, what I like to say is I'm selfish. Like, I think of myself sometimes. I put myself first sometimes. I have a sense of self. I am not selfless. I am selfish. And it like like you said, like, every time even as somebody who talks about that a lot, who has the research behind me, when I say that, like, I'm a selfish mom. I'm not selfless. I feel guilty for that because it's so synonymous with being a good mom. And I think that one of the biggest things we what I I prioritize is okaying that for moms. Just to say like, hey, what the research tells us is when moms have unmet needs, we see higher degrees of mom rage. We see higher rates of anxiety and depression. Your needs need to be met. And so and unfortunately, having our needs met can feel selfish, which is wild to me. I I what I how I see being selfish is prioritizing yourself, putting time and energy into yourself without that guilt. And and knowing that as a mom, you're still you're meeting people's needs left and right all the time that your needs deserve to be met as well. Mhmm. Yeah. And it's so true. Like, I would even say that most mom rage, generalized statement coming in, but most mom rage is just unmet needs. Right? Most Okay. Most, you know, postpartum mental illnesses, unmet needs. You know? Of course, there's physiological things that could be going on too, but unmet needs, you know, are you take, are you eating, are you, you know, preparing a nice meal for your child and then eating the scraps off the table? Probably. I know I did for such a long time. You know, I certainly my experience was exactly that. I, I was tired because I was up all night with my breastfeeding daughter and then in the morning I wouldn't eat properly. And then, you know, I just really got myself into this state where I had all these poor habits and they kind of snuck up on me without really realizing. And then one day it was like, we went grocery shopping. We came home. And I literally had to lay down on the couch. I had no energy. Like I couldn't play with my daughter. I like put the TV on. I was like, okay, here, watch TV. I need to lay down. And I, of course felt so guilty for that too. But it's like, I got myself into such a state that I wasn't being the mom that I wanted to be. And yeah, like it's unmet needs, right? The need for nourishment, for connection outside of your child, for friendship, for community, for, you know, minerals, nutrients, all of this stuff. It's so important. And, yeah, I think the word selfish alone in general, even outside of motherhood just has negative connotations. Right? To be selfish is a bad thing, you know? Right. But I love I love how you've reframed that. You're not your self ish. You know, you're you're taking care of yourself while also taking care of your child and you're taking care of yourself so that you can take care of your child and you're doing it just for you as well. I like that kind of, separation as well. Like, not everything is for the child. It's for you too because you matter too as a mother. Yeah. Yeah. And if you need to frame it in the context of, you know, I'm doing this for myself and for my family, I think that's perfectly fine. I think some people need that, especially with the cultural pressure that we have around that. It's like everything needs to be for your children. Okay. Well, this is for your children. And not only because you're gonna show up better, for them when you're taken care of. Do you want your daughter or your husband or your your your husband or your your your son as a future husband to have the same expectations for their partner or for themselves as a mother? Or do you want to teach them what it looks like to care for yourself? Because that's what you're really doing. And I think a lot of us grew up with this self sacrificial version of motherhood whether that was from the media or from our parents. And I it's definitely something that has informed my experiences. I my mom, if you meet anybody, I think the first thing they will tell you is she is so selfless. She's so selfless. My dad says it all the time. He praises her for how selfless she is. And I've watched her burn out more times than I can count because she has given of herself to the point and with very little thank you to the point where she she she can't do it anymore. And she she'll, you know, lose her temper or cry or whatever that looks like. And it's like, I just wish you would say no. Say no to the things that everyone is asking of you sometimes. But it's just the model we've been taught. There's there's this, this research term that I I've been exploring a lot lately, but it's called the flawless performance of motherhood. And what it is essentially is that we as women, we fear shame and guilt because there's already so much shame and guilt associated with motherhood. And so we put on this flawless performance of motherhood that we feel shame, but we don't talk about it or we don't reach out for help for any anger we experience, any negative emotion we're feeling because we are afraid of being shamed even further. So we don't tell anybody. We don't get help. We put on a happy face. We put on the flawless performance of motherhood because what women expressed to be the most important things in their motherhood experience was motherhood being seen as easy and being seen as I do this hard stuff for my family because that is enough. Even though my work is often diminished by others and myself and is rarely appreciated. That is enough because I am doing it for my family. And that is what most women believe is the marker of a good woman a good wife or excuse me. A good mother. And so we act that out. We perform that. And then what happens? Another mother sees that and they say, oh, man. She can do this. She doesn't have the negative emotions that I feel. She doesn't have the anger that I feel. So they feel shame and guilt. So they don't reach out for help. So they put on the flawless performance of motherhood and the cycle continues. And it's just having these open conversations of, hey. You know what? I feel these negative things sometimes, and so I take care of myself so that I can reduce that. But it's not easy. It's not perfect. And I wanna thank you from time to time, and I want to be and I will not diminish myself, for the work that I do and for the person that I am. Yeah. And, you know, I think social media is a weird place, all of that. But I think there are some really good moms on social media that are showing this side of motherhood. And I think as that becomes more normal and people see that, we can kind of, you know, change the tide of of, yeah, our kind of cultural understanding and belief around this, like, flawless Yeah. Performance of motherhood, like you said. Yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's very interesting. Because when you look at the research, it seems to me anyway that it's more of like your non social media influencers or, like, bigger personalities that are that have this fear. Probably because, like, the people who are seeing them are their close friends. You know, they're they're people who actually know them. And so for them to say, like, you know, my child does this or I I do this as a mom sometimes. It's a lot more personal. It's a lot more shameful. So, yeah, it's it's a really interesting thing to think about and, to examine when we look at our expectations of ourselves as mothers and and mothers at large. We start to see, like, oh, maybe I do have that unfair expectation of myself or someone else. It can be a really powerful thing. Mhmm. Yeah. And I think what's coming up to me is all these ideas around, like, self worth and boundaries and, you know, this idea of being selfless. But under underneath, there might be this, like, fear of rejection or abandonment. Like, there's all these kinds of deeper layers that I think women, especially internalize at a young age, for a myriad of reasons, media, you know, all the things we've been talking about, people pleasing behaviors, all of that. I think a lot of that is kind of underlying these, this desire and need almost to be selfless and to be seen as selfless. Yeah. 100%. And that's that's something I talk about as well is that that sociology of motherhood. The how how do we get this idea? Where did that come from? How have we been socialized through in our personal context as well as, with culture and society at large? How does that happen? And and then how do we kinda undo that as much as we can, because it is so complex. Yeah. And I think I wanna touch on, like, it's it's so easy to to be like, oh, bounce back culture. You know? It sucks. You know? I don't I don't believe in it. I don't agree with it, whatever. But that doesn't mean that it's not still hard. Like for example, especially body image, you know, it's, I can believe that my body did a beautiful thing and I can believe that I am different now. My body has changed and I can still look at the loose skin on my stomach and be like, okay, today I don't really like that so much. And I think that's what's kind of missing a lot of the time too. It's one extreme or the other. It's like you have to fully love your body as it is. You have to be, you know, neutral about your body. And it's like, well, is that is that true? Like, do we have to? Is it bad to like, I'm literally asking these questions because, yeah, I don't know either. And it's very confusing, right? Right. I don't believe in just pretending to love your body and pretending to love all the changes either. Like, I think it's okay to to look at your body. For example, I'm using body as an example, but, I think it's okay to be like, you know what? I don't really like this today. It's it's I, I shouldn't say maybe I don't not like it. It's just, I'm not used to it yet. I'm not used to this change yet. And I think a lot of that is kind of tied into that bounce back culture where we're still we have this internalized idea of what we should still look like and what a woman looks like rather than what a mother looks like. Because we're not shown those images of mothers' bodies. It's all like the maiden body body. Right? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's hard. Well, it is very hard, and I will say I I'm sorry. I keep quoting research, but I I'd really try to have as much, like, for I'm a very analytical person when it comes to this kind of stuff. And, I'm actually doing a YouTube video here in the next I think it's gonna be next week. And the research is about how social expectations impact us even if we don't believe in them. Even if you say, I don't believe in bounce back culture, you may still have this underlying expectation of, well, I should be doing that. It's very fascinating. So that's not there there's nothing wrong if you you can cognitively say, I don't believe in this. And that you're still like, what? So I I I see that and that's very valid. When it comes to whether it's I think something interesting you said was that I'm not there yet. Right? Like, I I'm not used to this yet or I haven't been able to embrace this yet. I think it's a really powerful way of framing it when it comes to, especially body image, but just a lot of things in the matressants experience. And one of the the beautiful things about the scenes of matressants with Nikki Macoun, where she has a certification course I would I would encourage you to look into. But she does frame matrescence in the seasons. Right? So we are you're able to put a name to where you are in your given season. And just like with the seasons of Earth, seasons are cyclical. And so you may when it comes to body image, you may when you're pregnant, you may be in a beautiful summer with your body and be this is so wonderful and gorgeous, and I embrace this fully because I am pregnant. I am powerful. And then you have the baby and you enter this fall where, okay, things are changing. I I'm in this kind of liminal space of, like, I don't have the baby in me anymore, but I still have a belly, and I can rationalize that because I just had a baby. And so these first two weeks, like, things are different. Leaves are falling off the trees. And then you're in month 2, and things still haven't gone back fully, but they you don't look like you're pregnant, but you don't look like your old self. And you're in this winter where the trees are bare. You were just this beautiful, you know, flourishing tree in summer, and you loved your body or, you you know, wherever you were. Maybe that's pre pregnancy too. Maybe it's that's that's your summer where you're confident and then pregnancy is your autumn where things are kind of falling away and changing. But then you're in postpartum and you're in this winter of, like, okay. Like, who am I? What is this? This is even more of a liminal space of, like, emptiness. And then inevitably, we get to the spring where you can start planting seeds again. You can start doing the actions that can help you to get back to that summer of embodiment and feeling better in in your own skin. But being able to label where you are in those that that phase can be really powerful a very powerful tool of acceptance in my opinion. So you're you're you're feeling like, especially in that winter where maybe you're in those early postpartum days or you're in that 1st year of motherhood where it's busy and working at regularly isn't happening or if eating healthy isn't happening and it's not a priority for you right now. You just don't feel like you can do that. Being able to say, like, I am in a winter. I am not doing the things that I know will help me to feel better in my body, and so that's okay. I am here right now, but I know the seasons don't last. And then when you start to feel like, okay. I think I can start working out a bit a little bit now. I think I can start adding in some walking. I think I can start maybe thinking about how many fruits and veggies I'm eating. And this is I I used to be a, I have a master's in exercise science and sports nutrition, so I'm throwing this in there now. I'm putting on that hat. But, I can start doing these little things. I I might be in this spring now. And now maybe I can start looking at my body as this thing I wanna start improving. And I can start looking at it in that sense of, like, okay. Let's start changing. Let's start doing the things. And I think those are the 2 big things that go into body image in general. It's the way we see our bodies. So that, like, how am I feeling about my body and what am I doing for my body? Because when we're not doing anything for our bodies, when you're saying those things like, I love my body. I care for my body. Very hard to believe that because you're not doing anything for it. You're not actively, like, trying to make it better. And so it's hard to it really does feel like you're lying to yourself. Right? But when you're doing those things to care for your body, when you're taking those active steps, it's a lot easier to to look at your body with appreciation and start to believe it. And I think that they'll start to improve our body image regardless of what our bodies look like as long as we are truly caring for it and respecting it and doing the actions. So it's the actions and the attitude I think really do go into that when we're talking about body image. But just looking at this the cyclical nature of all of that and being able to identify where you are in the realities of your season can be very powerful when it comes to any of the transitions. Maybe that's friendships or your marriage and you're like, oh my god. I'm you know, I'm 16 weeks postpartum, and I I could have had sex with my husband at 6 weeks, and we have had sex one time. And, oh my god. My marriage is gonna fall apart. Hey. I'm in a winter. That didn't even feel good. That, I don't have time. I'm tired. He's tired. Like, can we just communicate it where we are right now and to know this is what spring's gonna look like? And can we start talking about what spring might look like? And just being able to see where you are and having having the language to that, I think, is really powerful. Yeah. I so agree. And it's, you know, it's why I love asking that question at the start of every episode. Like, you know, what season of motherhood are you in? It's exactly for that reason, because it's so cyclical. It's always shifting. And I think when we can accept the season we're in, that guilt and shame can can reduce. Yeah. It like slowly lets go when we accept the season that we're in. And like, I know for myself, I couldn't have, you know, been working out and feeding myself as well. And I mean, there's another conversation in there about support and postpartum and support from others in general. But, like I couldn't have been doing that at a year. I just, I didn't have the energy. I didn't have the desire. I, I was more in that winter season and it wasn't until I realized and gave that like, use that language of seasons, really, that I was able to be like, okay. There will be a time for this. I'm not stuck here forever. And I think that's what we get kind of caught in as well. You you start to think that this is my life now and it's forever. Yeah. And with anything in postpartum and motherhood, you know, with your child's teething, with your child waking up every hour, I can feel like, you know, this is going to be your life forever. And if motherhood teaches us anything, it's that, you know, things shift and change all the time. And I think anchoring into this idea of seasons is so helpful. Like you said, around sex, around intimacy, around your body, body image, working out exercise, all of that. And even this idea of being selfish. Right. I think there's season for that as well. And I mean, ideally it would be great if we all, you know, give birth in the next, the next, especially that early 40 days postpartum that we're being super selfish. That's kind of the goal for sure that we're, you know, staying in bed, we're being fed, we're being nourished. But I think, you know, that that period of time kind of after that first, maybe 3 months is when it starts to be like, okay, the world is moving on. Everyone's moving on. Husband's back to work, you know, whatever it is, All these all the support has left. And now it's like, okay. Can you still be selfish? And I think it's hard for a lot of women at that time. I think there's a season for that as well. I know at least in my experience, that's what it felt like. For me, it was like at 2 years, I felt like I came up for air. It took that long for me. It was like and it's funny. There's like little it's cyclical. Right? Like, I feel like I went through a bit of a summer phase, you know, around 15 months. And then I kind of looped back around a winner and then I was back in this. Now I feel like I'm coming into this spring summer season again. And I think when we can really anchor into that and know that the seasons will shift, things will change. We will keep evolving, and there's a season to be self ish as well. I think that's so helpful and so important. Yes. And my hot take on selfishness and self care is that your self care is sometimes gonna look like meeting your basic human needs. And a lot of times people will fight me on that and say, like, self care should not be meeting your basic human needs. Sometimes in some seasons of motherhood that is all you have. And I would rather take a hot shower and go into it being, like, okay. This is my me time. I'm gonna take this shower and, like, cleanse this away even if it's a 5 minute hot shower. This is my self care. And walk out feeling a little more refreshed and cared for than walking into that shower and being like, I can't even take a shower. I this is I only get 5 minutes and then walking out and being mad. Do I think that is the way it should be? Do I think you should have more time for yourself in any given day? Absolutely. And I wish we did. But in some seasons of motherhood, that's just not the way it is, especially when you have a working spouse who is not there during that maternity leave or whatever that looks like or if you are a stay at home mom, like, it is just the reality of some people's situation. And I think it's robbing them of moments of joy and replenishment to say this doesn't count. And I also think there's little things we can do, that can kinda be that self care in moments of in busy seasons of motherhood. One of my favorite things to encourage people to do is, like, put on your own music during, like, a normal task throughout your day. Not like Elmo, but, like, you're making dinner, mommy's music time. Dance. You're getting ready in the morning. Even if it's for 5 minutes, you're you're brushing your hair, whatever. Put on a song and dance and just, like, what whatever can help you to feel, you know, fulfilled in that moment or or to cared for in that moment. Those things count. And it's and and I did a self care challenge over, Christmas. And a lot of people said, like, I didn't even realize how many of these things I already do. Because we do these things, but we don't put intention into them. We don't label them as caring for ourselves. And so it's just another thing we do in our day versus, oh, yeah. I did do that thing to care for myself today. And that feels good to have done that. But I didn't think about it as caring for myself. And so putting that attention into it makes a huge difference. So that's my hot take. I think that sometimes little things are all we have, and I think that self care is often excluded to or excuse me, not excluded to, but, like, exclusive to facials and massages and, going on a girl's night. Like, those count. No. You need those. So you need those, But they're not gonna be the reality of your everyday. And if we are looking at everyday things, which I think we need in order to have our needs met, the small things need to count. And that's why my journal day planner takes 5 to 10 minutes every day because it's something that you can do and it will help you. And it's not, you know, this it's not a it's not a workbook that you have to, like, read 2 pages and then complete a free writing and then no. It's the same thing. Relatively the same thing every day so that you can sit down, do it, feel better, move on versus it being, like, you know, this extravagant thing. I think making a mindset shift can be really helpful. Yeah. Yeah. That's I love that. And I I always kind of, like, laugh at this, like, policing of self care. It's like, well, that's not really self care. It's like, well, actually I get to decide what is self care for me. Absolutely. Right. I get to decide if taking that 5 minute hot shower is my self care for the day. And like you said, there is a season, right? If we're talking about motherhood, there are seasons and it's gonna look different. And, yeah, you know, maybe it is an issue if you never get to take a hot shower and it's that way forever. Right. And you're you're just, you know, you don't have that support. Then, yes, of course, it shouldn't be considered self care. It should be considered a necessity. But like you said, the reality of it is that we get to decide and if we it's that intention piece. Right? I think that's so important too, is can we consciously decide that, okay. I'm gonna I don't have much me time today. What can I turn into me time? Even if it's 5 minutes of sitting in silence, which, you know, that's probably not possible either as an email. But, you know, whatever Yeah. Whatever little way you can do it, it's the intention behind it. Yeah. And and it's that dissonance. I think it's that dissonance between our expectations and reality that often creates that pain. So if you have those expectations of, like, oh my god. I just really wanna do, like, an hour long workout today. That would feel so good. And, like, that's not gonna happen. Like, you're gonna be more just disappointed than being, like, okay. I'm not gonna get an hour long workout in today, but I could do, you know, 10 minute walk and that will feel good. Like, like, you were saying, like, it it it really often is that gratingness between what is and what we expect or what we want that can create a lot of pain. Mhmm. And, and so I I I agree with that fully. And I think I love the statement of, like, I get to decide, and I think also you are the only one who knows what is enough for you in any given day. Right? Like, is that shower enough for you today? Or do you need more? Do you need do you need more? You might. You truly might, but only you get to decide what is enough and what is considered self care. Yeah. And then you have to be able to use your voice and say, I need more today. And I think that is the part where a lot of women get caught up to is that is so hard to do, which is why I love, like the somatic work that I do because we can kind of get into those deeper layers and figure out why and like what's the underlying need there. What what is kind of keeping you blocked in that way? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. It's beautiful. So I would love to hear a little bit more about the journal and where we can find you, how we can connect with you. Tell me all the things. Yeah. There's there's a lot of things right now. The, the journal and day planner, like I said, is being printed right now. It should be out this spring. And so, the best way to keep your eye on that and to know when that's coming is to follow, the welcome on my account. So that's welcome mama_bysam because every welcome mama handle is taken and has 0 posts on it, which is so frustrating. But that is, that's where you can find me. And then, you could also go to welcome dash mama.com, and that's where I have my YouTube is linked there. My Instagram is linked there. And then there's also a page dedicated to the journal and day planner, so you can really see what it's all about. You can actually see the the pages and, get a feel for what that looks like. Awesome. I can't wait to have a look at it all. Well, Sam, thank you so much for this. This has been awesome. I think we touched on a lot of really, beautiful pieces that I think a lot of mothers think about and maybe don't have the space to talk about or Yeah. Yeah. So I I appreciate everything you've shared, all of your wisdom, and and sharing your story. So thank you so much. Thank you. Thank you for having me, and this has been a wonderful conversation. I could talk on this stuff forever, so thank you. That's it for today. Today. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I would be ever so grateful if you would leave a review on Apple or rate the show wherever you're listening from. It really does help this show grow and blossom. Alright. See you next time.