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The Well-Nourished Mother: Helping You Thrive in Pregnancy, Birth & Motherhood
Do you long to experience pregnancy, birth and motherhood on a deeper level?
Do you desire to explore new knowledge and perspectives, to practice tuning into and trusting your own innate wisdom, and to embody your most authentic version of self?
If that’s a “heck yaaaa” I hear, then WELCOME dear sister. You’re in the right place.
In this space we bring so much reverence to the rite of passage that is the maiden to mother journey. Join Lauren Fortuna-Floch for unfiltered and inspiring conversations with experts, mothers, and all around badass wise women, where we’ll explore all the ways we can nourish ourselves- body, mind, and heart. We're blending the head AND the heart, the mind AND the body to help you cultivate the knowledge, practices, and resources you need to be the most aligned and radically well-nourished mother you deserve to be.
The Well-Nourished Mother: Helping You Thrive in Pregnancy, Birth & Motherhood
19. Reconnect, Rekindle, and Realign: Prioritizing Your Relationship Through Challenging Seasons of Parenthood with Autumn Fowler
Having a baby changes everything. Especially your relationship. It can throw you off guard, but with the right tools, open and honest communication, and a commitment to prioritizing the changing needs of your relationship, you can feel like a rock solid team riding the waves of parenthood, together.
In this episode I'm chatting with Autumn Fowler, a clinical counsellor, relationship expert, business owner, wife, and boy mama to two littles. She specializes in helping folks who are preparing for parenthood, or in the trenches of the early years, better their relationships with themselves and others. She does this through individual and couples therapy as well as virtual group programs.
We're diving into the challenges, triumphs, and transformations couples experience in the transition to parenthood. Autumn serves up so much expert guidance around how to baby proof your relationship, reconnect after a tough season (hello fourth trimester), rekindle intimacy and sex, and realign on the regular to match both of your current levels of capacity and energy. If you've ever asked yourself:
"is it normal we're not having as much sex since baby?" or "how do we find our way back to each other after a stressful season of life?" then this one is for you.
The wisdom, guidance, and simple practical tools Autumn shares are infused with her deep compassion for and understanding of the unique and common challenges faced in relationships through the journey into parenthood.
We dive into:
- the common issues that can come up through the transition into parenthood like sleep deprivation, unfair division of labor, shifting intimacy, feeling like roomates, and what to do about it
- communication (of course!!) with script examples to help you shift from arguing to really communicating effectively
- what everyone's thinking about but no ones talking about: shifting sex and intimacy postpartum- how to navigate the ebbs and flows that take place in early parenthood
- navigating relational conflict in a way that helps you look deeper below the surface (you're not really arguing about the dishes again)
- the foundational qualities you need in your relationship to maintain deep connection through the changing seasons of parenthood
- how to have a "love meeting" and why it's so useful and important
Autumn's advice will empower you to shift from autopilot to conscious relationship in a way that matches your current capacity.
I hope this episode helps validate and normalize the immense shifts and transitions our relationships go through once baby arrives. You'll leave with practical tips, tools, and scripts to help you nourish your relationship, communicate effectively, deepen trust and all forms of intimacy and feel like you're on the same team.
♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥♥
Connect with Autumn:
www.nestcounselling.ca
@thenestcounselling_
Just for The Well-Nourished Mother listeners, save 15% on Autumn's courses with the code NOURISH15:
Babyproof Your Relationship: A self-paced digital course to help you prepare your relationship for a new baby
Team Parenthood- How to Not Hate Your Spouse After Kids: A virtual cour
I'd LOVE to hear your thoughts and feedback... send a text message directly to the show.
Join the community over on instagram to connect with your host Lauren @nestandnourish.
There can be this tendency I see with couples to throw their hands up in the air and say, things are so hard right now, and they're never gonna be any different. Or because they're hard right now, it means there's something fundamentally wrong in our relationship that's unfixable. And that just simply isn't true in this season of life. This season is impacting every aspect of your individual and relational being, and we have to give space to normalize those impacts and say they're not gonna be forever. And what can we do with the capacity we have right now? Welcome to the Well Nourished Mother podcast. This is a show for women who desire a deeper, more mindful, and meaningful pregnancy, birth, and motherhood experience. In this space, we bring so much reverence to the rite of passage that is the maiden to mother journey. I'm your host Lauren Fortunaflok, founder of Nest and Nourish. I'm a mother, an ex nurse turned birth worker, and a trauma informed somatic coach with a fiery passion for birth prep and motherhood prep that blends the head and the heart. Join me for inspiring conversations with with experts, mothers, and all around badass wise women, exploring all the ways we can nourish ourselves, body, mind, and heart in pregnancy, birth, and motherhood. This space will help you cultivate the knowledge, practices, and resources you need to be the most embodied, vibrant, authentic, intuitive and well nourished mother you deserve to be. So welcome. Let's do this. Welcome back to another episode of the Well Nourished Mother podcast. It's been a little while. I know it's been a couple of months since I've released a, proper episode on here. If you've been following along, you'll see that there are some other episodes in this podcast feed called musings and magic. And just to kinda clarify, those are, kinda like a subseries that my friend, Nicole Pasvir and I have created within each of our podcasts. So you can listen here or you can listen on her podcast called rewild and free. And those are, like, just little we're sharing the deep and vulnerable and honest conversations that we honestly have together all the time, behind the scenes. And we thought, you know, there is so much juicy stuff in here. Why don't we record them and create a little subseries? So that's what those are if it hasn't been very clear. So I've I've been able to kind of record and release a number of those in the last couple of months, but I haven't done a proper well nourished mother kind of interview, style episode. So I've got a really great one here for you today. So one of the things that I love about this podcast project is the new connections I get to make. It's given me this, like, this this confidence to just reach out to random people, especially on social media and be like, hey. I love your style. I love what you're speaking about. I love what you're sharing. Like, do you wanna come and chat with me? And then I get to have these really juicy and and deep conversations. And, you know, a lot of the time, the topics I come up with, the people that I'm reaching out to, of course, I've got you guys in mind. And and and, you know, as an audience, I I feel like I I can imagine what's important to you. I've heard feedback. You guys let me know what it is you want to hear about and learn about, and, you know, just in my own relationships with other mothers who are in similar seasons of life, it just feeds into giving me these these creative ideas for different themes and topics and people to speak to. But a lot of the time, it's very selfish. I'll be honest. It's it's because I personally, you know, have something on my heart, on my mind that I want to dig into, that I wanna learn more about, and that I wanna share with you. So that's what this episode is all about. You know, relationship stuff has really been on my mind and in my heart these last last little while. And I've been listening to podcasts. I've been having juicy conversations with my husband. Like, it's just been very alive for us in this current season of parenthood, and of life. So I reached out to Autumn Fowler, and she is a clinical counselor, a relationship specialist, a business owner, a wife, and a boy mama to 2 littles. She specializes in helping people who are preparing for parenthood or in the trenches of the early years. She helps them better their relationships both with themselves and with others. And she does this through individual and couples therapy as well as virtual group programs. You know, her niche really is kind of focusing on this transition into parenthood and I think that's just so important because I think it's often overlooked. Especially in my world, on this podcast, it's very mother centric and I think that is so, so important and it's a key, you know, it's key to ensuring that as women, as mothers, we are not being forgotten. And all of the, you know, very unique challenges and and triumphs are are focused on and unique needs. And we talk a lot about, you know, especially on this podcast and in my community, about how we can prepare for birth, how we can prepare for motherhood. And I think one of the pieces that is so often overlooked is how to prepare your relationship. And, you know, motherhood, parenthood, it cracks you open, and it shines a mirror on the way that you move through the world, the way that you perceive things, the way that you're activated and triggered. Like, it's just, it rips you open and it shines a light on all the pieces and parts that need a little attention. And it's beautiful for that. But I think if we're not prepared for that, it can feel incredibly overwhelming, and you can feel very alone. So I want this episode to serve as both validation and normalization that, you know, so many couples. I I even wanna say all, but I won't be that general. But almost all, I'm sure, couples move through some kind of turbulent phase as you're coming into parenthood. And knowing that it's it's okay and that there's so many ways that you can navigate this together so that you feel like a team, so that your love and connection and intimacy can grow even though it's looking different, it's feeling different in this current season of life. It's all okay. So that's what this episode I hope will do for you. We are talking about those, you know, the early survival days of the 4th trimester, and we're also talking about when we're shifting into more of, you know, toddlerhood and beyond and and how our needs and desires and capacity kind of shifts and how we can yeah. Autumn's giving us some really, really practical advice of how to navigate these seasons and, you know, things like the roommate phase, navigating sleep, and feeling like, you know, the division of labor is unbalanced. We're talking about, you know, increasing emotional intimacy, how to kind of reignite that that that part of your relationship. And we're talking about navigating relational conflict. So there's so much in here, and I can't wait for you to get to know Autumn. She is full of wisdom, and I'm so happy I got to connect with her. So I will stop blabbering on and let's get into it. So my favorite question to get us started is, can you share a word or a phrase to describe your current season of motherhood? Oh my gosh. What a good question. Expanding. Juicy. Do you wanna share a little more about that? I think as my boys get a little bit older, like, they're almost 3 and 4a half right now, so I feel like I'm entering like, really getting to know them as little people as opposed to maybe just responding to their toddler needs and tantrums all the time. And now thinking about, like, who are they in the world, and how can I best show up to support them to grow into who they're on this planet to be, and I find that that is a stretchy place for me? Like, having to learn a lot about them and different ways to parent them, and, yeah, I just feel like I'm constantly expanding right now. I love that. That gives me hope. I would say up until, like, quite recently, my word would have been chaotic for years. Yeah. Yeah. My daughter is, just 3 now. And yes, that's I I feel like I'm in a similar place where I can, like, see the light a little bit. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. So I would love it if, Autumn, if you could tell us a little bit about who you are and what lights you up in this world. Oh my gosh. I am a mother and a partner and a relationship therapist and coach. And truly what lights me up in this world is relationships. And that's, like, all relationships. Like, I just love the way that we as humans connect with other humans. So whether that be our family members or our friends or our spouse or our children. Like, I just think that the way in which we connect with other people is magical. Yeah. Yeah. And have you always loved that? Like, what brought you to this work? I have always had a fascination with relationships, but I don't think I knew that this work was work that I could do until I was a teenager, which is pretty early. But when I figured out that therapy was something you could do as a career, I knew that I wanted to do it. And I always, like, from the very beginning, envision myself doing relationship therapy, whether that was gonna be family therapy or couples therapy or what. But I, yeah, I knew it would be relationships in some point. And then I think I really niched into supporting couples through the transition into parenthood when I became a parent myself and just saw what a gap there was in service in that area. Yeah. Yeah. And it's funny. Like, when I when I'm searching out, topics and guests, it's it's sometimes very selfish. Yeah. It's like, you know, this is something that I'm really interested in. And, of course, because I know that the people I'm talking to in my audience are having the same kind of questions and thoughts. So when I found you, I was like, oh, yes, please. I have lots to say and, oh, I'm glad to bring to this. So, yes, like, the the transition into parenthood as a couple is very difficult. It's and it's something that not a lot of people talk about. You just always assume that everyone else's relationship just must be so good and happy and perfect Yeah. Because that's kind of what people present. Right? And it's it's you know, I'm so glad that for me personally, I have some really close girlfriends who are in, you know, married couples who and not the fact that they're married matters, just that they're in committed relationships. And we can talk about this stuff. And it helps just, like, validate and normalize that everyone is going through their own flavor of the same thing. So, yeah, I wonder, like, what are some of the most common reasons couples are seeking you out, you know, no matter where they are kind of, like, on the the parenthood journey? Okay. Good question. And I just wanna say it's so great that you have girlfriends that normalize this for you because, that isn't the case for everyone. And it's really important to not feel like you're the only one going through, these challenges because you're definitely not. But to answer your question, the most common reasons that couples come to therapy when they become parents is feeling like they're in a roommate phase and not knowing how to connect intimately anymore or that intimacy has really shifted since becoming parents. Resentment and struggling over a feeling of unfairness in the division of labor in parenthood. So whether that be, like, household load or emotional load of showing up for your child or, like, the behind the scenes invisible labor of running a household and and the parenting component, boundaries with other aspects of our life. So feeling like you're like, a really common one would be boundaries with in laws. That's a really common one that people are coming to therapy for, feeling like there are these loved ones in our lives that we wanna be in relationship with, but there's maybe either a conflict within the couple about how comfortable we are and what we want those boundaries to look like. Or we're on the same page, but we don't know how to communicate as a couple to these loved ones, like how we want them to be in our life or not be in our life in certain ways. And then always for all couples, it's communication and conflict. So how to have these conversations, especially in parenthood about, like, tricky parenting moments or those big parenting decisions that you're constantly having to make. Are we gonna sleep train or not? Are we going to do baby led weaning or not? Are we breastfeeding or bottle feeding? Are we co sleeping? Do we wanna do preschool, private school, public school, homeschool? Like, just there's there's constant decisions we have to make. And if you're not on the same page, which is okay, how do you navigate making those decisions as a team or, navigate the conflict that might occur based on not being on the same page on those topics? Yeah. Yeah. It's funny. As soon as you said the word roommate phase, I was like, yep. I've been saying that a lot lately. Yeah. Yeah. And it Those are all It is bad, baby. But I think there's, like, shame that comes with it sometimes for people of, like, oh, I'm not supposed to feel like this. We should always have an amazing sex life and and, you know, great passion, and there must be something wrong with us or our relationship is dead if if we're in this phase of roommate ness. Yeah. And it does. It brings up so much so so many questions, like, you know, is everyone else like this? Like, are we the only ones not having sex, for example, at the moment? And it does. It starts but the thing is, for me personally, I found that, yes, we're in this, like, roommate phase. But on on the other hand, I I feel like we also have a deeper love than we ever have. And that intimacy has just shifted into other things. And it's like we experience that love and emotional intimacy when we're interacting with our toddler between us or sleeping with our toddler between us. Like, it it's shifted so much. So it's like, it's very conflicting. It's like, I feel like I we have this deep love, but we're in this roommate phase, and the societal, you know, narrative is that this is bad, but but it feels okay. So how can it be bad? So it's a confusing time. It's a very confusing time. And like I said at the beginning, like, I'm lucky to have, and I hope that others can also find, you know, outside relationships, friends that they can speak to about this stuff to help normalize it and and validate it. But when you don't have that, that is why I think these types of podcast episodes are so important because I like, that is my goal for this episode, right, is to just help normalize and validate that whatever it is, whatever flavor it is that you're going through, that it's okay. Totally. Yes. And I love that that's your goal. It's so important. And and like I said, not everyone has those relationships to bounce those things off of or be as vulnerable and transparent about your own experience. And then when you're vulnerable and transparent to have someone reflect back to you, like, yeah, that's you're not the only one that feels that way. That's so valuable to have that. Yeah. Yeah. And then to figure out, okay, so now how do we navigate this? How do we improve this or shift this or change this if that's the season that you're in? Because, you know, for myself, those early days, like the survival era of of motherhood, which I like to call it because it very much felt like survival. You're sleep deprived. You're up all night. You're leaking. You're healing. You're bleeding. You're like, it's all happening all at once. Your identity is shattered and, you know, slowly rebuilding as this new mother, and as parents together. And I feel like in that in those days, you know, in terms of, you know, emotional intimacy, for example, like physical touch? No. Thank you. I'm getting enough of that from the baby. Like, I don't wanna be touched. I was touched out. So our intimacy was more like, you know, he wouldn't cook me breakfast and bring it to me in the morning, as I was breastfeeding our newborn, you know, and that felt very intimate and loving and beautiful. So in those days, that was all great. And then you kind of shift, you know, the one thing that we know to be true about about parenthood is as soon as you get used to one phase, it it tends to shift and slip away on you. And then you have to kind of renegotiate everything all over again. But now that, you know, we're in this, like, toddlerhood, you know, my daughter's 3. We're not so much sleep deprived anymore, but our exhaustion has kind of shifted into something different. Our desire to, like, connect as much more. I'm not breastfeeding anymore. My desire for physical touch is is increased because I'm not getting it so much from my daughter anymore. And it's like the desire, the libido's back a little bit. But now it's like we've got ourselves into all these funny patterns, and it almost feels, like awkward to try to kind of find our way back to each other. So I wonder I wonder maybe we could start, like, in those early days. And I like that you've listed out, like, those common reasons, that people come to you, like unfairness, boundaries, conflicts, decisions, roommates, feeling like roommates. I wonder if maybe we can kind of shift our focus to those early days of postpartum, and maybe you could touch on some of the common issues that come up and how we can navigate them. Yeah. The early days of postpartum, like, as you said, the survival mode, it's all happening. Like, what a tender time for everyone. So the issues that come up for a relationship in, like, if I were to categorize it as the 4th trimester, I think can be really boiling down to sleep. So feeling like you're both sleep deprived likely or there's an imbalance in the way that you're managing sleep and who's getting sleep, And there's feeling like that resentment is already building in the lack of sleep for 1 and not the other. But if you're both sleep deprived, then that's gonna have an impact on both of your capacity to communicate in your best way to show up as your best selves during the waking hours, and it can have long term impacts on your mental health, which brings me to number 2. So a big one that can show up again is mental health for both parents. And it's really important to know that it's the birthing and non birthing parent that can experience perinatal mental health disorders, and sleep is a huge thing that impacts that. So so we can see that quite commonly in the 4th trimester. More so for the birthing parent, typically, the non birthing parent is gonna have those symptoms show up more in, like, the 6 month range postpartum. The other thing that's gonna show up in the 4th trimester, especially for your first child, is the feeling of, oh my gosh. My identity is shattered for both parents. Usually more so the birthing parent, but this feeling of, like, I don't have the same freedom that I had. I don't have the same autonomy that I had to do the things that I wanted to do that fill my cup, to, you know, fill my cup socially, to fill my cup with health and fitness, to just have, like, time alone to journal or meditate or have a bath or go for a walk by myself. Like, things that you used to do to fill your cup are suddenly less available to you. And and then at the same time, you're needing them more than ever because your life is filled with overstimulation, sleep deprivation. Like, you're outputting and outpouring all of your energy to this little human, and you don't have the same capacity to fill your own cup. And so, again, both that's gonna impact both, but it can create conflict in the relationship if there's an experience or a perception of unfairness or, inequality in the way that it's impacting one more than the other. So that's that's typically one of the big first things that people will come to therapy for. If I'm seeing them quite soon after postpartum, it's because it's feeling like things are equal. Mhmm. Yeah. And and so how do we navigate that? Like, what how do we I guess, what what came to mind as you were saying that, you know, you kept saying, you know, this resentment builds. And I just kept thinking, like, well, what's the antidote to resentment? And is it not like communication? And if you've if you if you're already not good at voicing your desires and your needs going into this, then it's only gonna continue when you're deep in it and your capacity is low. You're sleep deprived. Like, it kinda just all unravels if you've already gone into this with trouble voicing your needs and desires. And instead, you know, you're silent. That anxiety and resentment starts to build, and then nothing changes and everyone feels bad. So how do we navigate this? How do we how do we do this? Right. I mean, it's I think it's a real learning curve. Because if you're somebody that struggles to voice your needs, then it's it's gonna be pretty easy for you to build resentment because you're not giving your partner a fighting chance to to meet your needs if you're not communicating what you need. So the first step is always being able to identify what you want or what you need so that you can communicate it. And then if I can give couples any advice at all about communicating their needs, it's to communicate it outside of a heated moment. So it's not, you know, while the baby's screaming or while you're in the middle of feeling triggered in that resentment, but to bring it up in more of a neutral moment. Hey. There's something that I've been thinking about, and I wonder, if you have capacity to talk for a few minutes right now and just trying to find a quiet minute, which is hard with a baby, but prioritizing that conversation for a couple minutes in a neutral setting to share your need and then taking accountability to make that happen for yourself, which I find for women in particular is countercultural to what we've been raised to do. So not just asking for what we need, and this has been a lesson for myself as well, but then saying, I'm not going to wait for my partner to create the space for me to do this. I'm going to prioritize my own needs now that I've communicated it and say, like, no. This is the time that I need to go for a walk, or this is the time that I need to have a 20 minute bath alone, whatever it is for you, and and not wait for the invitation to do so. Create it for yourself. Yeah. I that was something that I really learned about myself during this time that, you know, my husband would just get up in the morning and go have a shower. And I, I would be like, okay, like, good for you. Yep. That's great. And I would find myself asking to do that. Like, oh, can I go have a shower now? It's like, wait a minute. Why am I asking? Like, sure. Yes. It's a need. It's a necessity. And, you know, someone needs to be holding the baby while I do that. But I just found it. Yeah. It was very enlightening to me to realize that. Yeah. Why am I waiting for the invitation to do it rather than just taking it, rather than just doing it? And I, and I didn't see, I, you know, I, I wasn't resentful. Towards my husband for, for that. I actually found it quite inspiring. I was like, oh, okay. The way you move through the world is that you have a need. You meet that need. And for, like you said, for women, it's so much harder. You have a need, and then you scan the environment, make sure nobody else's needs are gonna be stomped on if you meet your own need. Yeah. Be that good good little girl. Yeah. And then you you meet your need last after everyone else is taken care of. So it was a very enlightening experience to realize that and to start in small ways, kind of flexing that muscle of like, no, I need to do this and I need to do it right now. I'm gonna do that. Here's the baby. I'll see you in 15 minutes. And yeah, like for me becoming a mother, just, there were so many little ways like that, that I got to like, in an instant kind of break the, the, this conditioned part of myself. And, but that can be so it's terrifying for a lot of people because it's the way that you've just been raised. It's the way that you've experienced the world. It's the way that you've been told you're good, and it can it can feel very unsteady because you're also feeling all of these other things at the same time. Like, that early postpartum time is such a unique experience. And, you know, I'm all about the nervous system and somatics. And when I think about, like, the unique state of your nervous system at that time, Like, when you talk about capacity, you know, if you imagine your capacity as a bucket and, you know, you fill that bucket with sleep, with nutrition, with connection, with, you know, all the things that make you feel good, in those early postpartum days, it's like there's holes in your bucket. And those things are constantly dripping out and you can't fill them fast enough. Like, you're you're sleep deprived. So you're much more prone to dysregulation. You're you're in a state of fight or flight a lot of the time. And and that just, you know, it affects how you react to your partner. It affects how you react to anything. Anything can feel more activating and triggering in those, in those days. But I think we also get kind of like narrow in our view. Like, oh, I did, for example, where it's like, oh, I'm dysregulated. I need to work on my nervous system. I need to breathe more. I need to move more. And it's like, yeah, that's one piece of it. But have you eaten? Have you have you like, you know what I mean? Like, you we start to get so focused on one aspect, you know, or you only focus on nutrition. It's like, well, I I've I've eaten well today, and I've taken my supplements. Why am I still feeling this way? And it's like there's 16 sounds going on in the background behind you. Like, it's just such a unique time for your nervous system. Yeah. So so I love this. So communication, of course. I like how you said that the first piece of this is actually being able to recognize what it is that you need. Because I think in those moments, that alone can feel really hard. It's like, well, I feel really bad right now, and I don't know what I need. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. So we've we've talked a little bit about the early days, that survival mode, when sleep is hard. Oh, that's what I wanted to ask you about sleep. So how do we navigate that? Is it like a conversation about who's sleeping when? Is it getting creative about maybe we're not sleeping in the same bed right now? Maybe some maybe someone's sleeping elsewhere. Like what does that look like for some of the couples that you work with? Or what do you recommend? So I recommend that you come up with a plan about how you're going to tackle sleep before you have a baby. And then you revisit that plan continuously throughout your parenthood journey. So, yes, it's gonna look different for every couple because every baby is gonna be different, and every couple's gonna have different needs based on, like, maybe their work experience or their their home environment, how many kids are in the house, etcetera. So this needs to be a customized conversation. It's not gonna be a one size fits all because sleep is not one size fits all. But what is universal dips below that, for optimal mental health. Research shows that when it dips below that, that's when we start to really see anxiety, depression, psychosis, like, all the things are really gonna peak when we're getting consistently less than that on a regular basis. So this might look like shift work for couples. Right? Doing you know, you have uninterrupted sleep from these hours of the night, and then we trade, and then you're responsible for baby and the other one's getting uninterrupted sleep. This might look like 1 night on, 1 night off. This might look like somebody is responsible for baby for the majority of the night, but then gets that chunk of sleep from, like, 4 AM to 8 AM before the other partner leaves for for work. So it doesn't really matter what, just making sure you're getting that chunk of sleep. And then the checking in, what I recommend for couples is you pick a period of time, like, let's say it's monthly or weekly in those really early days of how is sleep feeling for you, do you feel like you're being successful with the amount of sleep that you're getting and needing? And if not, what do we wanna tweak to make it more successful? Yeah. Oh, I remember those early days. My my daughter was not a sleeper. She was up every 2 hours for the first, probably, 15 months of her life. And it was and I was breastfeeding. So it felt like it was all on me. Mhmm. And it was me that was up every 2 hours. And, of course, my husband was there, and he'd be woken too, but he felt almost helpless. So it's interesting, you know, we each have our own experience of that. Like, I felt so tapped out and he felt so helpless in those moments. And, yeah, I think it's easy to forget that, you know, the other partner is having their own experience of this as well. But, yeah, sleep was a struggle. And, of course, you know, it depends on, you know, if you're breastfeeding or not, if your baby is a good sleeper napper because some people don't have this struggle at all. And some people it's like every hour for 2 years. Yeah. Like, no wonder we're talking about mental health issues. Yeah. And for me personally, I found that sleep deprivation and my nervous system did not go together. I was always an angry, yell y mess if I didn't get enough sleep. So my husband and I really like realized that early on. And we shifted into this pattern where he would get up early, with our daughter and I would get to sleep in for a while for even even if it was 2 hours, 2 and a half hours, I felt so much better, you know, because it was a real, like, sinking deep REM sleep. Whereas, you know, when the baby's laying beside me in the bed, it's a much different sleep. Your your brain is still on and paying attention to them. So even just having that, like, alone sleep for a couple of hours made such a huge difference in my own ability to manage my own capacity. So, yeah, I think what I'm hearing through this is that I think a lot of people go into parenthood thinking that nothing is gonna change And literally everything changes. Everything. The way you navigate sleep, who sleeps where, like everything changes. So fostering flexibility and adaptability and good communication and resiliency is kind of at the core here is what I'm hearing. Yeah. I think flexibility is a huge one and feeling like you are a team, and you want to support one another to navigate this uncharted land that neither one of you has ever been before. Because even if it's not your first child, it can be quite unique. And, yeah, feeling like you can take and tackle whatever new thing is coming up for you and say, how what do we need this to look like as a team? How is my partner gonna function their best? And my partner is also wondering how I'm gonna function my best and what I need, and we are supporting each other to get through this. Right? Because parenthood is a lot of the time, like, you know, we're we're getting through. We're surviving in those early days. And we also want to feel like we're thriving as a couple even though we might be surviving in, like, a sleep nutrition, filling our own cups kinda way. I want couples to feel like at at the end of the day, their relationship is thriving even if they are only in survival mode. Yeah. And what are your thoughts? So, you know, you mentioned, you know, another big piece is this feeling that like the workload or the division of labor is kind of unbalanced. So how do you kind of navigate those conversations with your partner? I mean, might be one of those. It depends. But generally speaking, having a conversation of things aren't feeling fair or things aren't feeling like, I'm feeling like I'm carrying a really big load, and I could use some support. Right? Because if you're bringing it up, it's probably because you're feeling like you're carrying more of the the load than your partner is. And then, you know, inviting them into that conversation. Are you open to supporting me in this? Do you want to maybe take on a little bit more? Because I'm kinda feeling like I'm drowning. I'm feeling like I don't have capacity to do the things that I need to do to be a good partner or a good mom. I'm really just, like, doing the tasks, and then I have nothing left for anything else. And I could use your support here. So inviting them in in a way that feels like there's gonna be something in it for them. Right? Like, oh, yeah. I do want you to be a better partner for me. And if that means that I take out the trash more than, like, I can do that. And then, you know, there are some amazing resources out there that can support people through these conversations. One of my favorite ones is the book Fair Play by Eve Rodsky, and she has a card game where she's got a 100 different tasks that most couples who have children are going to have that to run a household and parent a child. And you go through those and you decide, like, who's responsible for what. And she has a whole system for how this can work. You can also go through this yourself. Just make a list of every task that you feel exists in your household all the way from, like, doing the dishes to waking up with your child in the middle of the night. There's just so many little things that we have to get done and decide, like, how do we want to divide and conquer? Remembering that we're not looking for equal. We're looking for fair. We're looking for it to feel like this works for us in the season of life that we're in right now. So, for example, when I was home on maternity leave, I took on a lot more of the household chores than I had ever done before. I'm married to someone who, like, is is such an equal partner and really, like, does his fair share of chores around the house. But when I was home on maternity leave, I suddenly found myself doing things that I'd never been responsible for, like all of the laundry, all of the dishes, all of the that felt fair. But then it was like, I need support to to take things that you can do off my plate because I'm doing so much more of the household stuff while I'm home plus the baby stuff. And then when I transitioned back to work, it's like, okay. Now we need to reevaluate what this is gonna look like in this new season of life. And it's it's a constant game. Again, this flexibility, this communication, this how how are we tackling this as a team because, as you know, as a mom, nothing is the same forever. You're constantly shifting and changing in these different phases with your children, and you're gonna shift and change with different phases in your relationship as well. And that sometimes is about who's responsible for cooking dinner, and sometimes that's about who's responsible for, you know, driving kids to different extracurricular activities and and whatever as you go through it in life. Yeah. Yeah. And I think the big piece that comes up for me like, I'm always thinking about like the deeper layers for, for women, for mothers, especially like for example, like the guilt that oftentimes comes up when we're going to our partner or or wanting to go to our partner to say, you know, this is feeling unfair because there's this, again, this cultural pressure to do it all. And that a good mother, you know, quotation marks good, is someone that can just do it all magically and and be smiling and perfect and pleasing and while they're doing it. So I think there's a lot that needs to kind of unravel in your own mind, in your own heart to get to this place where you can go to your partner and say, like, not even like in the relationship dynamic, but on like a personal level where you're breaking down this, again, this conditioning of, I should be able to do this all. And by me asking for help that I'm somehow bad and not good enough. I think that plays a role in a lot of mother's experience more so, I think, than fathers. But, you know, everyone has these these, this cultural programming kind of running in the background. Do you find that to be true as well? Absolutely. And I think, yes, there's there's a gendered expectation. Absolutely. And then I think there's the added layer of of different cultures. So if I'm working with interracial couples, I'll notice, you know, there are certain cultures where there's gonna be different expectations placed on different genders. When I'm working with same sex couples, I'll notice, you know, there are different family of origin expectations. Right? Like, where they came from and what they learned growing up. Those those expectations and norms, they run deep in us, and they're not always conscious. And I think parenthood cracks us open and forces us to see a lot of the things that we've just been kinda living on autopilot with for a long, long time And to say, hold on a second. This isn't actually working for me. So this is where therapy and self reflection is such an important piece, I think, of parenthood to really analyze and reflect on, you know, those feelings of guilt, those feelings of of expectation. Are those internal feelings? Are they external feelings? Where did I learn this? Is there a space for me to unlearn them? Because it it maybe is impacting my life in ways that aren't beneficial anymore. And remembering that everything served us at one point in time in our life. So if we were somebody that was raised in, a home where it was really important that we were a good girl, for example, that's a really common narrative in our culture. That's great. That's how you got through the life that you needed to get through at that period of time. And now, as a parent, is that serving you? Is that serving your children for you to continue to carry on that narrative? Is that serving your relationship? When your children leave the home, the fact that you were a good mom mom that always showed up and always did all the things for your children and nothing for yourself, what's gonna be left over for your spouse 20 years from now if you're expecting to be together until your children leave the home? Those are the questions I want people to think about to consider. Maybe it is worth doing the uncomfortable thing and having the conversation that they're not wanting to have based on these expectations and ideas that they've been carrying with them their whole life. Mhmm. Yeah. And you said it so beautifully. Like parenthood, it does. It cracks you open. It shines a mirror in your face. Like, I've even found myself all, like, kind of angry at something, and I say something. And I'm just like, wow. That was not me talking right there. That was, like, apparent from when I was 6. And it's like, do I actually believe that and wanna say that? No. But it's just so it, like, comes out so automatic, and then you're like, wait a minute. Yeah. Yeah. So it's it's parenthood is a wild, wild ride. And talk about your nervous system showing up in those moments. Right? Like, when you're angry, when you're triggered, your nervous system is operating from a survival place and pulling on information from when you were young, pulling on those trauma responses from when you were a child. Absolutely. And the fact that you can catch it even after the fact is huge because you could just continue to live on autopilot and and do the things that have been hardwired into your nervous system to do. Or you can begin to go to look at it and reflect and say, like, oh, I'm gonna do the work to unlearn this so that when I am triggered, I'm rewiring my nervous system to respond in different ways that I want to be more beneficial for myself and for my family. And it's hard. It's hard work. Right? And it's much, I think Yeah. It's it's, much easier to do in the presence of a therapist, a coach, a, you know, whoever it is, some kind of guide to help you through it because it's big work, and it's hard to see your own blind spots. It's it's hard to yeah. It's it's big work. So being gentle with yourself. And, yeah, you know, as you were saying that, you know, the fact that you can recognize that after the fact, I was like, yeah. Like, I don't give myself enough credit for that. Like, I do have awareness into this. That's the first step right there. But, yeah, I think it's easy to be really hard on yourself in those in those, situations. Mhmm. I'm wondering if we can kind of so we've talked a little bit about, like, talked about so much, but we've kind of focused on those early days, the very kind of like survival phase, I wonder if we can kind of shift into more of, you know, selfishly where I'm at right now. So, you know, we've made it into the toddler phase. A lot of that survival feeling, is kind of gone to in a sense. I I've used I've used words like I feel like I've come up for air. When I stopped breastfeeding, I felt a real shift in my energy that, you know, my energy felt very focused inward. And now my energy feels very focused outward back into my community again, into friends, into, you know, doing things that I wanna do. So all of these changes have happened. I think hormonally, physically, things have changed. I'm feeling much more, you know, that libido is back, which is fantastic. Cause I thought, oh, where did that go? It's never coming back. So, so now it's like, all of these things are shifting. I'm finding that my desire to connect with my husband is back. And so are all those feelings of like, oh, but look where we're at. Like, it feels awkward. I don't know how to do this. How do we go from not even touching at all some days to like eventually hopefully having sex again? Like it feels like it feels very far away at the moment. And of course, and I've and I've spoken to other good friends who are in a very similar experience. They they voice the same thing. There's no time. We feel like passing ships in the night. That's another big one that I hear a lot. Yeah. So how do we start to kind of rebuild at this point where the capacity is a little bit better? We're not so sleep deprived. We've got a bit more maybe not more time, but more capacity is the word. Right? The more, ability to kind of focus on this. But what are those baby steps to kind of not feel like you're jumping from 0 to a 100? Yeah. Such good questions. And, like, I'm so excited for you to be in that stage because that's a really, like yeah. It's like a hopeful stage. Like, oh Mhmm. This this it's like you've come out of winter. You're coming in this and you're like, oh, these buds are still here. I thought this tree was dead forever. And now but, yeah, that awkwardness. Right? So let's speak to that piece first, and then I'd like to speak to the, the passing ships and the getting creative piece. But okay. So let's imagine that you haven't had sex in 3 years. Let's say that's the case. And you both are on a page of, like, we want to move in that direction. The end goal for us is to be having sexual intimacy again in a relationship, but maybe going from not hardly touching on the couch to intercourse feels really far and and a little uncomfortable. We wanna warm up to that. Okay. So let's talk about other forms of intimacy. So there's there's a few different forms of intimacy, but the four main ones I like to focus on are physical intimacy, emotional intimacy, mental intimacy or intellectual, and spiritual intimacy. So are there ways that you can be increasing each of those areas, or are there certain sectors where you're feeling good? Like, maybe you've mentioned, you know, emotional intimacy has felt pretty good. Like, you're connecting in all these beautiful ways through parenthood. But maybe physical intimacy isn't feeling so good. And physical intimacy includes a lot of things outside of sexual intimacy. So, you know, maybe that looks like beginning to cuddle on the couch. You know, putting your feet on your partner instead of sitting on opposite ends of the couch. Holding hands, giving each other a massage, with no expectation of it being anything more than that. So starting from that place. And, okay, let's say now we've we've gotten to that place, and that's beginning to feel comfortable. Okay? Now we wanna go one step further and grow that comfort zone. So is there a way where we can say, I really want to just make out, and I don't necessarily want it to lead anywhere. Okay. So we're just going to be making out, or maybe we're open to physically touching each other in a way that is maybe a little bit more sensual but isn't necessarily sexual. This might look like light tickling touch or laying together naked and and observing each other's bodies, observing your own body, cuddling naked. So having more sensual touch without it necessarily being sexual. So as you can see, there are these steps or layers that we're growing through together to get to stretching our comfort zone so that it doesn't feel like we're going from 0 to a100. Does that make sense? Yeah. Yeah. And, of course, like, the the foundation here is that you're talking about this and, like, setting these expectations together so that you're both putting in the effort to do it. Because I think a lot of the times it can feel like, you know, maybe it was the the woman I'm using very gendered terms. I don't mean to, but it can be whatever. But, you know, in my personal experience, it's the woman that's bringing up this issue to begin with. So then, you know, you can fall into feeling like you're the only one that's actually putting the effort in because everybody's tired and blah blah blah. So, yeah, there needs to be, like, this communication, setting the expectations and both, like, committing to this is what we're going to prioritize right now. And even that can feel really hard. Right? When when it feels like there's no time to prioritize, you know, your your fitness, your nutrition, you know, the things that you enjoy doing. Like, the days are long. Maybe you work all day. You get home. Put the big the kid to bed, and then it's like there's 2 hours before you fall asleep on the couch. What do I wanna fill those 2 hours with? Well, I need to check my email. I need to do this. And it's like somehow the relationship just keeps getting, like, nudged to the bottom of the list. So it's like, how do we I mean, it sounds so simple in a way. It's like, well, you just decide. You just prioritize the relationship and put it at the top of the list, but it just feels really hard sometimes. It does feel so hard sometimes. All the time, it feels hard. We're we're living in a very busy season of life of parents of young kids. There isn't a ton of spare time, as you mentioned. And so something that I think can be a really beneficial tool in this time is scheduling. And this might be scheduling sex, but this might be scheduling conversations, scheduling connecting emotional date nights, like intentionally prioritizing that time through putting it on your calendar. There's something really powerful about that. There's something about saying, we're committing to each other and ourselves that on Wednesday evening, after we put down our child, we are gonna spend those 2 hours on our relationship. And saying that out loud to each other is very different than just thinking in your head, Like, oh, I really hope that, like, at some point in time this week, we do something together. But then, like, as you said, all these other things come up and somehow the relationship goes to the back burner. And I think that that happens in long term relationships. 1, because we're comfortable with one another and we, you know, we tend to, like when things are safe, we feel like we don't have to put as much effort in to, keep it. Right? We're not worried about losing it. And then the other reason is if things aren't good between, like, in a relationship, it can be difficult to want to put that effort in because we're not seeing the reward immediately. It's like, what's even the point? We're just gonna have an argument, or I'm gonna initiate sex and then get rejected. So, like, I'm gonna stop trying. And and we can put ourselves into these patterns of believing that, putting that intentional effort in isn't going to reap the reward that we want it to. I'm glad you brought up scheduling because I have a friend of mine who swears by scheduling. They schedule they schedule literal sex, as well as, like, date nights and things like that. And I'm like, that's such a great idea. And, you know, this was like months months ago. And I kept saying to myself, oh, I should bring this up. Oh, we should do this. Oh, yeah. We should really we should really do this. And I just kept not doing it. And finally, finally, a few weeks ago, we decided together. Okay. Monday nights, when you get home from work, daughter's in bed, no phones. That's our time to play a game, to connect. There's no expectations on it. It's just time to be fully present with one another because we're also in this age where we're constantly distracted by so many other things, like our phones, emails, like in the past that never would have happened. You wouldn't be laying laying down on the couch in the evening, scrolling on your phone. Like that just wasn't a thing. So I think we're we're missing those moments where we can literally just be in each other's presence with undivided attention. So, yeah, for us, that's finally we've we've set that on our calendar and so far we're committing to it. And I've it's it's amazing because in that time, like the conversations we end up having are very deep in and things that we've wanted to talk about for a long time and just haven't found the moment. So I can already feel the effects of that. And it seems so easy now. It's like, why didn't we just do it immediately? But, again, there's, like, this this capacity and this desire and, yeah, like, deciding that, okay, it's time. Like, we need to prioritize us again. Yeah. I love that. I love the idea of, like, a weekly night, no devices, undivided attention, no expectation, just like we're gonna be spending time together. That's so great. I love that for you. Yeah. Thanks. So you mentioned you wanted to touch on, like, the passing ships in the night kind of comment. Yeah. Yeah. So the scheduling can be a really, big component of that. The other thing is getting really creative and flexible, again, with how we can be successful with connecting with our schedules the way that they are. So, for example, you might have, pre kids, been the kind of couple who really enjoyed having sex before bed, or you really liked having sex in the morning on a weekend because you would have, like, those lazy mornings in bed. And now you're like, evenings don't work for me because I'm freaking exhausted, and it's the last thing I wanna do. And I have just no desire at that time in the day. Or, you know, weekend mornings aren't gonna work because we have children, and they're, like, up at 6 AM and need to go to the park. So okay. But when would work? When and where can you get creative? Can you put on a show for your kids and have a quickie in the bathroom, in the shower while they're watching a show, can you, really prioritize nap times on weekends? And, like, maybe that was time that you really needed to get a project done around the house, but because, like, that is your window, that's the window that you're now going to prioritize for your relationship. So getting creative and flexible about the hours of our day are not working for us, but we're going to, you know, come home on our lunch break and make this happen because this is the time that we have. Yeah. And it's yeah. That was a big thing for us, especially, you know, it was very much in the bed before bed. That was our routine. And now we have a 3 year old who still sleeps in our bed with us. So that completely, like, took that off the, you know, out the window. And in those early days, we just didn't have the energy to have that creativity. You know what I mean? Like it just wasn't there. But now that we we do, we're coming, you know, kind of out this other end and feeling a bit more, Yeah, just feeling more resourced and have the energy to see this as like a fun and playful and creative thing. Right? Like, it gets to be fun. And it of course, that's hard when you're sleep deprived. But when you're I think I think it's important. Like, is this normal? Like, is this what other couples are going through? Yeah. This is absolutely what other couples are going through. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. And I think I saw or I heard on another podcast some I can't remember who it was. I'm so bad with remembering specific details. It was some kind of relationship or sex therapist speaking. And she shared some statistic about, you know, most couples start having sex again when their child is 6 years old. And I was like, woah. Like, that's okay. Like, that that that makes me feel better. Yeah. I I found that very, validating. Okay. Just to know that it is a season. It is a phase. It's not forever, but I think a lot of couples, if there if that communication is missing that it feels like there's something wrong there's something wrong inherently with the relationship, and that's when these relationships kind of fall apart. Yeah. Yes. And the the danger, it's not about the not having sex. It's about it's about the not talking about it. Right? The the not having the conversation and and providing support and hope to one another of this isn't gonna be forever. This is a stage. And and here's what I have capacity for right now. And here's what I need right now. And being able to support the relationship through this this season together instead of kind of there can be this tendency I see with couples to throw their hands up in the air and say, things are so hard right now, and they're never gonna be any different. Or because This season is impacting This season is impacting every aspect of your individual and relational being, and we have to give space to normalize those impacts and say they're not gonna be forever. And what can we do with the capacity we have right now? Mhmm. Yeah. And, you know, I I speak so much about, you know, the cyclical nature of our, you know, female bodily bodies, like our our cycles and seasons of our menstrual cycle, our cycle and seasons of motherhood. And then our relationships also have those that cyclical nature. And if we can kind of shift into thinking, you know, this is like the winter season of our relationship where it doesn't look all shiny and and and in full bloom, but we're working on the foundation with those pieces of communication and deep trust and and safety, like all of those foundational pieces and trusting that if we continue to do that, we will flourish again. And who's to say that we're not flourishing in in yeah. Like, I don't even wanna make it seem like like now is bad and then is better. It's more like it's all part of the the the natural cycle. You know, when we look at nature, like winter isn't bad. It's just a time of of rest and rejuvenation. That's exactly it. I love that perspective. There is nothing bad about this season of life inherently. It can be really challenging, and it can feel bad if we're not talking about it, if we're not feeling like a team. And that's what we wanna support couples to do in this season is to feel like a team during the winter. You know? We're we're we're resting for a purpose. This is how it's supposed to be. And how can we remain connected in the ways that we have capacity for in this season of life? Speak to each other with love and kindness when we're sleep deprived. I mean, that's challenging itself. But, like Yes. How do we how do we stay connected when things are hard? Yeah. Yeah. And maybe, like, the last piece we could talk about is that that conflict piece because, you know, all of these things we've talked about, sleep deprivation, nervous systems are dysregulated. You're maybe underfed your, you know, maybe anger is coming up a lot and the way we're speaking to each other isn't so nice, and we're bickering and fighting about all these little things. Like, how do we navigate those conflicts in this tough season of life? There's 22 things that come to mind for me to speak generally to because, of course, this is, like, one of those more such individual beings in the way that we communicate and what's going on for us. But the first one is I really advise all couples to have regular, what I call, love meetings. They're called different things. Some people call them state of the union meetings or, I've heard some influencers call them boring meetings, but I call them love. And this is where you're sitting down regularly. If you're in a difficult season of life, I would recommend weekly. And you have an agenda and you're predeciding what you're gonna talk about. So, like, if you and your spouse were gonna decide Monday nights are our nights, you might say half an hour of that time is gonna be our love meeting. And, you know, this upcoming Monday, I really wanna talk to you about our summer vacation and about, sexual intimacy, or I really wanna talk to you about our budget and, how we're sharing the load of parenting and our fair division of labor and, like, checking in about that. So you're intentionally setting aside neutral time to have these conversations that aren't in the heat of the moment, that are about topics that you know you need to talk about but are really easy to just put off, put off, put off. So that prevents either party feeling blindsided, and it prevents resentment and issues that you are experiencing from building up inside of you and then exploding in the heat of the moment because you haven't given yourself the chance to talk about it outside of those times. So that's that's the first piece of advice. The second piece of advice I would give people is whenever you are fighting about these little things, to remember and get curious about so remember that it's not about the thing that you're fighting about, and get curious about what it's actually about for you. So, for example, the example I always give is, if you're fighting about doing the dishes, it's not about doing the dishes. So if I'm in the kitchen and my partner comes in and sets his, dinner his clean like, finished dinner plate down on the counter and walks away, I can immediately feel irritated, annoyed, a bit righteous. Like, oh, you think I'm gonna put your plate in the dishwasher? Like, no. Thanks. You're an adult. Do the chore yourself. So I can I can immediately go to a place of irritation and annoyance? But if I were to say those things to him, which I sometimes do, he is going to respond with, like, hold on a second defensiveness. Like, why am I being called out? All I did was set my plate down. You're overreacting, might be dismissive of my concern, and now you can see how that's just gonna really, like, spiral into maybe some huge conflict. But if we slow the tape down and get curious about what is actually getting triggered for both of us in this moment, what's really below the surface? For me, it might be feeling unappreciated, taken for granted, feeling like it's triggering this experience of feeling alone in carrying the load, and the labor of running a household or parenting. It might be feeling, yeah, like like I'm unseen in the efforts that I'm putting in. And for my partner, it might be feel also feeling unappreciated, but for everything else that he's doing. Right? Like, oh, there's no grace for me to just set down my plate. Where was the thank you for the other 10 things I did today? Or, you know, I this is triggering a wound I have of feeling like I'm never measuring up. I'm never good enough. I feel like my character is being called into question. Like, I'm a, you know, inconsiderate, inconscientious person who's not wanting to contribute to my family, and that's simply not how I see myself. And now I feel like I'm being unseen in how I see myself. Right? So you can see how this can get deeper, deeper, deeper into these, like, core wounds that we may have been carrying for our whole lives, and now they're popping up about the dishes. So this is the the kind of thing where it can be really helpful for an outside person, like a therapist or a coach or a guide to support us in doing that. But just for yourself even to start getting curious, what are the common themes for me that pop up time and time again when we're arguing about other things? When we're, you know because whether it's the dishes or the laundry or the driving the kid or getting rejected when somebody initiates sex. Like, whatever it is, there's likely gonna be a handful of triggers that are a common theme for each of you as individuals. And once you start to bring awareness to that, it becomes so much easier to be vulnerable and tender with one another in oh, I really see what just got triggered here. Or and I can communicate that to you, or I can reflect that to my partner. Okay. I see that I, like, flew off the handle about the dish on the counter, but, like, I know how much you're doing for our family. And I'm I'm sorry. I haven't been appreciating that enough. And and it does bother me that the dish is on the counter right now because I wanna feel like we're equal in our partnership here. But there was a nicer way I could have said that to you. Right? We can suddenly have more tenderness for each other if we're coming from a place of what's actually going on. Mhmm. That's such a great example. Is that a very common pattern? Because I'm laughing because I think my husband and I have had that exact I mean I mean, it's a common pattern in my household. Yeah. For me, it's, when bowls aren't rinsed, like and there's, like, food left on them because our dishwasher sucks, and then I end up having to wash it again once it comes out. And I know that when I was a kid, my dad always gave it to me for not rinsing my bowl. So it's like, I know that there's this deeper thing here, but I still find myself just reacting in the same way all the time. But I love this, like, this questioning. It's like, okay. I'm aware of it. What are the common themes here? And how can I actually instead of saying you didn't do this thing, how can I shift into saying right now I'm feeling this? And just how different that is, like, that's received in such a different way. Right? So it's really learning how to shift how you're communicating with each other during these conflicts. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. We have touched on so much. And the one thing that keeps coming to mind to me is like, oh my gosh, I wish I was taught this in school. I like, why aren't we learn why don't we learn about how to navigate relationships and especially navigate them after we have children? Because so much changes. Nobody told me that was gonna happen. I was not prepared. And, yeah, like, I wish I wish I took a course before I had my child, and I know that you've got a beautiful offering. I wonder if you could share a little bit about, what you think of this about, you know, preparing before baby comes and what that looks like. Thanks. I mean, same. I wish I took a course. And I was a relationship therapist before becoming a mom, and so I knew I knew we were about to undergo changes. But I didn't know what those changes were, and I didn't know how to tackle them, And there was not enough information out there to support us. And so I really have made it my mission to create that offering for the world, for future parents to be able to come up with a game plan as a team for how they're gonna transition into parenthood. And I call that course baby proof your relationship. And I I offer it in 2 different formats. So I have a digital self paced course that couples can move through at their own time. But I also, occasionally, because I love meeting with people in person, offer these local workshops, and I have one coming up in the Mid Island area, the Nanaimo area, this Sunday. If you're listening to this before Sunday, June 23rd, in the afternoon, and there'll be people coming from all over the island to attend it. So it's kinda cool to meet with other couples, and you leave that workshop with a complete customized game plan for how you're gonna tackle the 4th trimester as a team, including a sleep plan, including, knowing who your village is and what kind of boundaries you wanna set and how you're gonna set them with different people in your life, including how you plan to reconnect intimately, post birth or after baby's here and when you're feeling, open to doing that, how you're gonna tackle all the common tricky parenting issues that I see coming up in the 4th trimester. Like, it's a really robust course, and, I just feel really proud of it, and I I love offering it. So, for your community, I would love to offer a discount of 15%, and that is gonna be using the code Nourish 1515. And I'd like to extend that discount to my other program as well, which is for couples who are in the early years of parenthood. You know, they're already maybe past that 4th trimester phase and going like, holy cow. I didn't prepare my relationship. Or maybe I I tried to, but, like, things are a lot different than I imagine them being. And, that course is going to really support you to feel like a team, feel connected, enhance intimacy, communicate better, all the things, And it's called team parenthood. And, again, it's an online self paced course. Amazing. Thank you so much for that discount for my audience. It this is so important. And I think we especially in my world, like in my my audience, in my work, it's very mother centered, which I love. And, you know, I'm this podcast is called the well nourished mother, you know, focusing on how we can nourish ourselves, body, mind, and heart. And it's like, you know, the relationship is a big piece of that. And even the way I talk about like preparing for birth, preparing for, for motherhood, like that relationship piece is often missing. We work so hard to prep freezer meals and to, you know, make sure we have. We're we're able to stay in the bed for 40 days. Like, whatever that looks like for you, we we focus on that stuff so much. But the relationship piece is often just completely, completely missed. You just kinda go in with your fingers crossed, hoping that it all works out. That's certainly what I did. So I think this I was just gonna say I love I love how you're bringing up that point because I'm a mother too, and I don't want to I don't want us to stop focusing on the mom. All of those things so important. And there's actually research that shows that the health of the relationship, the romantic partnership in a couple when you transition into parenthood is going to impact the mother's mental health postpartum greatly. So we can say we wanna support the mom, but the partner and that romantic relationship needs to be supported as well if we're supporting the mother. Of course. Like, of course, it does. Of course, it affects the mother's mental health. Right? It's like your your foundation. It's it's it's your support. Yeah. So I love this. Thank you so much. Where can we find you and connect with you? Yeah. I hang out the most on Instagram at the nest counseling, with 2 l's, underscore. So at the nest counseling underscore. And, my website is nest counseling dot ca. And yeah. Amazing. Well, Autumn, thank you so much for all of this. We touched on so much, and, you know, we just kind of scratched the surface. Like, any small piece of this, we could have gone so much deeper in because there's just so much that goes into this huge transition and into the relationships that surround being a parent. It's a very juicy topic. So thank you so much for sharing your community. Thank you for listening. I just wanna share that very gracious coupon code one more time that Autumn has shared with you. That is nourish15 for a 15% discount on 2 of her incredible courses. One is called baby proof your relationship and the other is called teen parenthood how to not hate your spouse after kids, and they are both filled with practical knowledge tools and tips to to navigate this this challenging season of life so that you can come out as feeling like you're a team and that you have the tools and tips and communication skills to navigate this time together. So again that's Nourish15 and you can, find out more about those courses on her website nestcounselling. Ca. Thank you so much for listening. If you enjoyed this episode, I would be ever so grateful if you would leave a review on Apple or rate the show wherever you're listening from. It really does help this show grow and blossom. Alright. See you next time.